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wagle-tags [2017/11/15 19:49]
donpdonp created
wagle-tags [2017/11/15 19:50]
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 19:​47:​48 ​          wagle | (1) is a minor patch to esr52 source 19:​47:​48 ​          wagle | (1) is a minor patch to esr52 source
 19:​48:​20 ​          wagle | without automation, (4) requires you to be OCD or something 19:​48:​20 ​          wagle | without automation, (4) requires you to be OCD or something
 +17:​15:​07 ​          wagle | anyone here use chrome? ​ what's egregious about it, compared to (the new) firefox?
 +17:​32:​38 ​        ​rozwell | wagle: have people been saying chrome is awful compared to the new firefox?
 +17:​36:​45 ​          wagle | rozwell: dunno, thught I'd ask around since I'm trying to escape firefox
 +17:​36:​59 ​          wagle | 's foundation oof sand
 +17:​37:​23 ​        ​rozwell | i'm not sure the backwards compatibility story is any better in chrome land
 +17:​37:​41 ​        ​rozwell | but chrome is the same as it's been, only now firefox has a slight performance edge
 +17:​37:​43 ​          wagle | !image rocket assisted tricycle
 +17:​37:​44 ​     skybotbeta | http://​​wp-content/​uploads/​2015/​01/​BN_RocketElectricTrike_014.jpg
 +17:​38:​15 ​        ​rozwell | so it seems like you're getting off the firefox tricycle as others are getting back on i guess
 +17:​39:​14 ​          wagle | they whittled down the Miati to a tricycle.
 +17:​40:​06 ​          wagle | I dunno. ​ I've spend ten years getting a thousand papercuts, not theyy applied a wrecking ball
 +17:​40:​18 ​          wagle | so I have a bad attitude
 +17:​40:​46 ​          wagle | I dunno. ​ I've spend ten years getting a thousand papercuts, now they applied a wrecking ball
 +17:​42:​43 ​          wagle | my very confused mind is trying over and over to reconsile continuing with firefox, despite my opinion that it will die in 1-2 years now, or go with chrome, which I *think* they won't
 +                         | "​googlize"​ in that time frame
 +17:​43:​01 ​        ​rozwell | what constitutes '​googlization'?​
 +17:​43:​02 ​          wagle | but a browser is central to my workflow
 +17:​43:​22 ​              * | djwong tries out Fx 57, immediately notices that all the fonts look the same
 +17:​43:​41 ​        ​rozwell | i would doubt that firefox will die anytime soon, especially since this release seems to have got people excited about it
 +17:​44:​54 ​          wagle | witness orcut or the colloberative thng whose name I'm spacing, they ignore it until only 90% of the populaton uses it, then claim no-one uses it, and kill it
 +17:​45:​32 ​          wagle | its a shiny new toy, that no extensions worth mentioning work on any more
 +17:​45:​57 ​          wagle | so after the shininess wears off
 +17:​46:​00 ​        ​rozwell | i haven'​t used any extensions in years
 +17:​46:​11 ​          wagle | why use firefox?
 +17:​46:​14 ​          wagle | then
 +17:​46:​17 ​        ​rozwell | why use chrome then?
 +17:​46:​37 ​          wagle | chrome supports the web sites I use
 +17:​46:​45 ​        ​rozwell | does firefox not?
 +17:​46:​48 ​          wagle | unlike safari and esr52
 +17:​47:​41 ​          wagle | but the question is actually "what are chrome'​s gotcha'​s?"​
 +17:​48:​12 ​          wagle | firefox does, but my bad attitude wants firefox to die
 +17:​48:​24 ​        ​rozwell | the set of things it supports is slightly different than the set of what other browsers support
 +17:​48:​32 ​        ​rozwell | and it's chock full of google integrations
 +17:​48:​47 ​          wagle | oh, I'm forced to use esr52, which is rotting already
 +17:​49:​01 ​          wagle | the coolest websites dont cope with it
 +17:​49:​03 ​        ​rozwell | it sounds like you're not forced to use anything
 +17:​49:​41 ​          wagle | right now, I'm forced to use esr52 because it supports queries on tags
 +17:​50:​02 ​          wagle | but its breaking, and will go away in june
 +17:​52:​00 ​          wagle | I have 10K tags on 13K bookmarks (including 2k personal wiki pages). ​ my life and ability to do things depends on this setup. ​ I'm flailing around trying to get off firefox, but noot
 +                         | seeing an alternatiive, ​ nevertheless,​ I'm seeing what I can construct on chrome
 +17:​52:​05 ​        ​rozwell | well firefox is currently slightly faster and backed by a less evil company
 +17:​52:​48 ​        ​rozwell | chrome is slightly less fast and backed by a scary company
 +17:​53:​09 ​          wagle | firefox hant been shooting at your wheel-chair-for-your-mind for a decade now
 +17:​53:​18 ​          wagle | hasnt
 +17:​54:​10 ​          wagle | but I havent been in chrome'​s sights yet, hence asking about it
 +17:​54:​29 ​        ​rozwell | i have no idea how to interpret that metaphor
 +17:​54:​34 ​          wagle | .. my ..
 +17:​55:​38 ​        ​rozwell | but i don't think anyone over in chrome land cares about indefinitely supporting your niche use case for some bookmarks feature either
 +17:​56:​11 ​          wagle | I didnt say I could tag things in chrome
 +17:​57:​11 ​          wagle | and i supposed I should realize that no-one in the GOP or whitehouse is interested in the medicare, ssdi, and hud use cases either
 +17:​57:​51 ​        ​rozwell | it just seems like the amount of time you've spent bitching about it here could'​ve been used to find or build a suitable replacement
 +17:​57:​59 ​          wagle | I just think whatever I build on top of chrome will last longer than firefoox
 +17:​58:​50 ​          wagle | you are the one bitching at me for asking about "whats wrong with chrome"​
 +17:​59:​34 ​          wagle | over and over, I find no replacement for esr52, but II have to replace it.
 +18:​00:​23 ​          wagle | so RIGHT NOW, I'm seeing what I can build using chrome, but wondering about the ways I might be painting myself into another corner
 +18:​00:​47 ​          wagle | but YOU dredge up all the olld angst
 +18:​01:​29 ​        ​rozwell | it sounded like you wanted to know how chrome compared to firefox in terms of long term support
 +18:​01:​42 ​        ​rozwell | i don't think chrome has an extended support version
 +18:​01:​54 ​        ​rozwell | so wouldn'​t that make it less stable than firefox in that regard?
 +18:​02:​13 ​          wagle | I need the organizer to build things. ​ right now its too slow to get much done.
 +18:​03:​24 ​          wagle | I am trying "​browser agnostic"​.. ​ my choices are chrome, firefox, and possibly opera. ​ safari is not supported by the websites I try to use all the time.
 +18:​04:​16 ​          wagle | so, since firefox is trying to emuate chrome now, I thought I'd give it a spin
 +18:​04:​44 ​          wagle | otherwise, I hold my nose, and usue ff57+
 +18:​05:​01 ​          wagle | unse
 +18:​06:​00 ​          wagle | btw "less evil" is a point, though, ff has actively done me evil, and google hasnt (yet)
 +18:​07:​12 ​        ​rozwell | evil is a strong word for it
 +18:​08:​05 ​          wagle | umm..  my physical life depends on this thing they are taking away
 +18:​08:​49 ​        ​rozwell | your life depends on tagged bookmarks?
 +18:​09:​37 ​          wagle | I have to log all my personal details here over and over?
 +18:​10:​14 ​          wagle | but yes, via a complex web of dependencies
 +18:​12:​26 ​       pingveno | I'm confused, how has Firefox removed tags?
 +18:​13:​04 ​          wagle | instead of dead people, I see entire probabiliistic case-analyses at once.  no matter what I come up with, I die, physically, in 1-4 years. ​ Before the gopzis and the tag thing, that
 +                         | was more than maybe 10 years.
 +18:​15:​15 ​          wagle | with ESR52, by default, tags have a tiny non-resizable editor, and no ability to form complex and/or/not queries on them.  with ff57, those two extensions are not permitted.
 +18:​18:​28 ​          wagle | so, by default, tags have been miserable to use in firefox for a decade, so no-one uses them, which they can measure, so put no effort into making them better
 +18:​19:​58 ​          wagle | my situation is akin to having my wheelchair marked as "​to-be-vaporized",​ and having bystanders suggest that I build my own, when I have no arms or legs
 +18:​20:​24 ​          wagle | I can type with a pencil in my mouth
 +18:​20:​34 ​          wagle | in this analogy
 +18:​21:​49 ​          wagle | I have a board with wheels on it now, that sorta gets me around.. ​ but I would do better with an ironman suit
 +18:​22:​23 ​        ​rozwell | ironman built his own suit though
 +18:​22:​24 ​          wagle | but even the board is  to be vaporized
 +18:​23:​10 ​          wagle | joe on the sidewalk can do that?   ​everyone?​
 +18:​23:​41 ​        ​rozwell | i believe in the past you've suggested you're maintaining extensions to work with these tags
 +18:​23:​47 ​              * | curve25519 is looking at condo above beer store
 +18:​23:​52 ​          wagle | yeah, I'm trying to pull the ironman trick, without have arms or legs
 +18:​24:​34 ​          wagle | I inherited one thats large, ugly, and is pretty much unsupportable
 +18:​25:​01 ​        ​rozwell | so what's stopping you from exporting the tags and putting them into some kind of database that can support querying?
 +18:​28:​43 ​          wagle | the notion of trying to support it is plan A.  plan B is getting off ff completely. ​ both plans involve my own database, unless I try to support tags in firefox over at least one dead
 +                         | body.  my broken mind cannot handle all the failure modes that all lead to my physical death.
 +18:​29:​50 ​          wagle | I AM working on this.  as part of prototyping plan B while mulling over plan A, I asked about using chrome instead of firefox
 +18:​31:​14 ​          wagle | my understanding is that ff57 trails chrome in support for extensions, instead of being way ahead, like before
 +18:​32:​06 ​          wagle | I need to see the actions of the bookmarking system, so I'm trying to figure out what I can and cannot do now
 +18:​32:​50 ​        ​rozwell | if i were in your position i'd think about making this thing a web app so as to not be dependent on any browser
 +18:​34:​43 ​          wagle | zotero is one candidate. ​ devonthink is another. ​ people the zotero forum seem dubious about 10000 tags.  devonthink so far seems to display things in a way that only supports a hundred
 +                         | or so, but I am not certain oof that
 +18:​36:​27 ​          wagle | Zotero got involuntarly shoved off firefox, so plan B is to use either it or devonthink, or something else, by fitting into one or more of the ecossystems
 +18:​36:​46 ​          wagle | zotero is the exemplar of plan B
 +18:​37:​53 ​          wagle | offboard apps would be slower than what I have now (I expect)
 +18:​38:​55 ​          wagle | plan A is to fix firefox tags.  that has both the best outcome, and the worst expectation of success
 +18:​40:​36 ​          wagle | I have to think for another day or two on plan A.  meanwhile plan B is seeing what I can do with zotero, devonthink, my own stuff, evernote, etc.  some of which is proprietary so
 +                         | yoinkable.
 +18:​41:​48 ​          wagle | my pitch for plan A is verbally weak, I see it it in my head, but having a hell of a time verbalizing it
 +18:​42:​25 ​          wagle | plan B Is cobbling together existing things to approximate the ideas for plan A
 +18:​43:​07 ​          wagle | II expect plan B to be as slow as my existing setup
 +18:​43:​11 ​          wagle | or slower
 +18:​43:​38 ​          wagle | all the latency/​bandwidth boundaries are worst case
 +18:​45:​13 ​          wagle | I was "this close" to having a life again
 +18:​49:​00 ​       donpdonp | I wish i understood what you're describing.
 +19:​02:​04 ​          wagle | for example?
 +19:​05:​24 ​       donpdonp | any of it?
 +19:​05:​53 ​              * | donpdonp tried to formulate something
 +19:​06:​29 ​       donpdonp | 'with ESR52, by default, tags have a tiny non-resizable editor , and no ability to form complex and/or/not queries on them.  with ff57, those two extensions are not permitted.'​
 +19:​06:​54 ​       donpdonp | by default means to be ESR52 with no extensions, yet the end of the sentance implies extensions
 +19:​07:​02 ​       donpdonp | means to be/means to me
 +19:​09:​15 ​       donpdonp | a criteria for success would be a good thing, too. if 'those two extensions'​ worked on ESR52, would that be what you want?
 +19:​13:​27 ​       donpdonp | in other news, elm continues to rock.
 +19:​15:​05 ​       zenlinux | donpdonp: you sure seem to like that mail client. it's been a while since I've used it myself
 +19:​15:​17 ​              * | donpdonp rolls his eys
 +19:​15:​44 ​       donpdonp | i was crushed to learn pine doesnt really stand for Pine Is Not Elm
 +19:​22:​00 ​          bkero | The mail client?
 +19:​22:​06 ​          bkero | heh
 +19:​37:​55 ​          wagle | donpdonp: you have to provide two extensions to ESR52 to get resizable editor windows and complex tag queries. ​ FF57 has the same problem, but doesnt permit extensions to fix those
 +                         | problems any more
 +19:​38:​57 ​          wagle | a number of sites are now unhappy with ESR52 (expires next June), and some just dont work
 +19:​40:​00 ​              * | wagle defensively hugs his mouse driven gui
 +19:​40:​01 ​       donpdonp | what are the names of the extensions
 +19:​40:​55 ​          wagle | they both arent public, so that they can be certified so I can use them.. ​ nothing sekrit, just no public urls
 +19:​42:​07 ​          wagle | if you really want to give them a spin, I can see if I can setup something
 +19:​42:​13 ​       donpdonp | i dont.
 +19:​42:​21 ​       donpdonp | i just want to understand.
 +19:​42:​37 ​       donpdonp | can you name the extensions so at least we can refer to them in irc?
 +19:​43:​12 ​          wagle | (1) I run a hacked esr52 to not double-space lists of tags
 +19:​44:​33 ​          wagle | (2) I run my fixed version of editmarkplus to let me resize the individual bookmark editor.
 +19:​46:​02 ​          wagle | (3) I run my github'​d "​tagspace-archive"​ to do complex queries on bookmark tags.
 +19:​46:​52 ​          wagle | (4) I manually query and modify tags in order to run a daily workflow. ​ I really really need to automate that.
 +19:​47:​21 ​          wagle | (2) and (3) are installable if I hand you the .xpi files
 +19:​47:​48 ​          wagle | (1) is a minor patch to esr52 source
 +19:​48:​20 ​          wagle | without automation, (4) requires you to be OCD or something
 </​code>​ </​code>​
wagle-tags.txt ยท Last modified: 2017/11/15 19:50 by donpdonp