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bitcoin:miners [2011/01/08 11:31]
donpdonp
bitcoin:miners [2016/06/25 11:25]
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-= conventional = 
-  * amazon ec2+GPU 
-  * high-end ATI cards 5770,5870,5970 
- 
-= wildcards = 
-  * map/reduce miner in javascript. 
-  * ASIC miner 
-  * BTC/USD fluctuations 
-  * bitcoin difficulty setting 
- 
-= performance talk from irc = 
-<code> 
-30-Nov-2010 
-01:11 <+Keefe> tylergillies: 760 mhps, 5770 + 5970 
- 
-09:13 < donpdonp> Keefe: that 760 megahashes, thats from two video cards? 
-09:16 <+brocktice> donpdonp: yeah 
-09:16 <+brocktice> donpdonp: the 5970 will turn around 600 depending on how much you  
-                   overclock it 
-09:17 <+brocktice> donpdonp: the 5770 will do about 150-180 depending on overclocking 
-09:17 <+brocktice> so I'm guessing that's probably 600 (5970) + 160 (5770) = 760 
-09:17 < donpdonp> brocktice: neat. im surprised that those are ATI cards. I thought CODA  
-                  was used 
-09:17 <+brocktice> donpdonp: nope, OpenCL 
-09:17 <+brocktice> nvidia cards suck for mining 
-09:18 <+brocktice> the integer performance per dollar and/or watt is much better on ATI  
-                   cards 
-09:18 <+brocktice> heck, these days even the floating point is better 
-09:18 < donpdonp> brocktice: is the opencl miner available? 
-09:18 <+brocktice> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1334.0;all 
-09:18 < donpdonp> not that i even own an ATI card, just curious :) 
-09:18 <+brocktice> I'm currently turning about 1.7 GHash/s 
-09:18 <+brocktice> 2 5970s and 2 5770s 
-09:19 < donpdonp> is that in one box? 
-09:19 <+brocktice> all overclocked to various degrees, the 5970s are water cooled 
-09:19 <+brocktice> no, two boxes 
-09:19 <+brocktice> the 5770s are in my workstation 
-09:19 <+brocktice> the 5970s are in a dedicated miner 
-09:19 <+brocktice> but with two PSUs you can put them in one box 
-09:19 <+brocktice> ArtForz does. 
-09:19 <+brocktice> he uses extra fans. 
-09:19 < donpdonp> interesting. have you calculated the bitcoin value vs. electricity? 
-09:19 <+brocktice> http://www.flickr.com/photos/brocktice/5195604987/ 
-09:20 <+brocktice> yep, it's very profitable vs electricity 
-09:20 <+brocktice> the hardware is getting harder to pay off though 
-09:22 < donpdonp> brocktice: how long until a block is only 25 coins? wont that make  
-                  mining unprofitable? 
-09:22 <+brocktice> another 2-3 years 
-09:22 <+brocktice> and no, probably not 
-09:22 <+brocktice> depends on difficulty really, and future gpu hardware 
-09:22  * donpdonp nods 
-09:23 <+brocktice> and btc price 
-09:23 <+brocktice> a lot of variables 
-09:23 <+brocktice> I did some quick calculations a month ago and figured I could pay off  
-                   the miner at current difficulty/prices in less than a month. 
-09:23 <+brocktice> with increases in difficulty and price fluctuations it's looking more  
-                   like a month and a half. 
-09:25 <+brocktice> ArtForz is running something like 24 5970s 
-09:25 < donpdonp> zomg. 
-09:25 <+brocktice> he has really cheap electricity 
-09:25 <+brocktice> and he's using them to heat his house this winter, basically 
-09:25 <+brocktice> he started very early with a custom miner. 
-09:25 <+brocktice> and all his equipment is already paid for from selling his btc 
-09:25 <+brocktice> he's spent around $12000 now I think 
-09:25 <+brocktice> maybe more 
-09:26 <+brocktice> he has about 20-30% of the hashes on the network 
-</code> 
- 
-= multiple miners = 
-<code> 
-2010-Dec-1 
-11:10 < JudStephenson> I have another question: If I have two computers generating hashes,  
-                       what is to stop them from generating the same hashes? Since there  
-                       is no "progress" on a  block, two computers generating a total  
-                       22,000 kh/sec isn't the same as one computer generating the same,  
-                       correct? 
-11:11 < OneFixt> JudStephenson: As long as you don't copy your wallet/addresses from one  
-                 computer to the other, you should be ok. 
-11:12 < OneFixt> Each computer will add a different address of its own before hashing. 
-11:13 < JudStephenson> ah, so they aren't generating hashes in the same space? 
-11:13 < JudStephenson> \ 
-11:13 < [Noodles]> depends on how you connect them to a client, you can remotly connect  
-                   multiple "miners" to a single client to make them all "share the same  
-                   work", if you use multiple clients/wallets though, theyll all have  
-                   their own work todo 
-11:14 < JudStephenson> Would you be more likely to generate blocks using multiple remote  
-                       miners or multiple clients / wallets? 
-11:14 < OneFixt> Equally likely. 
- 
-</code> 
- 
-= miner network = 
-<code> 
-11:15 < gp5st> i'm sure this has been thought of: working with folding or seti or w/e  
-               @home and having something come out of the expenditure of cycles? 
-11:15 < [Noodles]> we've got something coming out 
-11:16 < [Noodles]> a secure network 
-</code> 
- 
-= ATI cards = 
-<code> 
-2010-Dec-5 
-13:15 < xelister_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units 
-13:17 < ArtForz> 6870 ~232Mh/s, 5850 ~240 
-13:19 < lolcat> ArtForz: Isnt the 6870 much faster? 
-13:20 < [Noodles]> one might think so, but it's not 
-13:20 < ArtForz> for 3D, yes, for mining, no 
-13:21 < lolcat> Then I will get first one 5850, and then if it pays off, Ill buy another  
-                5850 to double the speed 
-13:22 < ArtForz> 6870 has more ROPs and fixed-function hardware than 5850, which improves 3D  
-                 perf quite a bit, but raw shader perf is a bit < 5850 
-13:23 < lolcat> What would be the best one to buy for mining? price vs capacity, and wich  
-                would have the fastest speed possible in a single card? 
-13:23 < ArtForz> fastest affordable single card is still HD5970 
-13:24 < ArtForz> fastest card period is the various AIB 5870x2 cards 
-13:24 < [Noodles]> i think i'm ordering a 2nd 5850 tomorrow, i'll need another PSU too though 
-13:24 < ArtForz> if you have to pay for the rest of the hardware 5970 is a good bet, for  
-                 card alone best Mh/$ is still 5770 
-13:25 < ArtForz> I dont have any probs 
-13:26 < ArtForz> just stay away from SDK2.2 
-13:27 < xelister> on catalyst 10.09/.10 (ubuntu), it generates at 50% speed (it reports 530,  
-                  but half of blocks are invalid) 
-13:27 < ArtForz> that sounds like crossfire is enabled 
-13:28 < ArtForz> I run cat 10.9 and 10.10, no invalid blocks 
-13:28 < ArtForz> sdk 2.1 
-13:28 < xelister> ArtForz: I run some shitty 10.10-beta from ubuntu 
-13:29 < ArtForz> and I'm pretty sure I'd notice losing half hashrate 
-13:30 < ArtForz> 5770 = about 150Mh/s 
-13:31 < lolcat> 5850 = about 240Mh/s ? 
-13:31 < ArtForz> yep 
-13:31 < Lysacor> Sure beats my Nvidia GTS 250 at 32Mh/s... 
-13:31 < ArtForz> 5870 310, 5970 530 
-13:31 < ArtForz> GTX580 ... 120 
-13:32 < ArtForz> 5750 115 
-13:32 < ArtForz> kinda funny, nvidias biggest card is a tad faster than a 5750 ... 
-13:32 < Lysacor> and too expensive :P 
-13:33 < ArtForz> and 250W... 5750 is 85W 
-13:35 < lolcat> Does the mining require a lot of transfer speed between the gpu and mobo? 
-13:35 < ArtForz> nope 
-13:36 < lolcat> Would x8 work? 
-13:36 < ArtForz> I got a 0.4% drop from PCIe 2.0 x16 to PCIe 1.0 x4 
-13:36 < [Noodles]> Lysacor: i'm running m0's on windows, cc10.10 sdk2.2, nothing special, no  
-                   probs 
-13:36 < lolcat> Woho, then I could stick 4 of them in my new computer xD 
-13:36 < ArtForz> most of my 5970s are running at x8 
-13:37 < ArtForz> AMD [7|8]90FX chipset can only do x16/x16, x16/x8/x8 or x8/x8/x8/x8 
-13:38 < ArtForz> = all my quad 5970 boxes are running at x8 
-13:41 < xelister> 5970 + ubuntu 10.10 x64 + catalyst/fglrx from ubuntu + sdk = FAIL, just  
-                  215M (generates 50% of coins wrong out of reproted speed 530M) 
-13:41 < ArtForz> = tried setting DISPLAY and running a seperate miner for each GPU? 
-13:41 < xelister> 5970 + ubuntu 10.10 x64 + catalyst/fglrx from ubuntu + sdk2.1 + daiblo  
-                  miner(git) = FAIL, just 215M (generates 50% of coins wrong out of reproted  
-                  speed 530M) 
-13:41 < xelister> same on sdk2.2, just it easts 400% cpu time 
-13:41 < ArtForz> 2.2 = FAIL with any multiGPU setup 
-13:42 < ArtForz> I don't rememebr how diablos selects GPUs for mining 
-13:44 < ArtForz> does it allow you to specify a OCL device index to use? 
-13:44 < xelister> it runs on all gpu 
-13:45 < ArtForz> yeah, thats asking for trouble 
-13:45 < xelister> why 
-13:45 < ArtForz> beacuse ATIs openCL runtime is retarded 
-13:46 < ArtForz> run a seperate miner process for each GPU 
- 
-</code> 
- 
-= ASIC = 
- 
-<code> 
-2010-Dec-10 
-15:09 < ArtForz> if difficulty keeps rising like this even payoff of a 5970 @ $0.10/kWh is uncertain 
-15:12 < ArtForz> and at $.10/kWh that 5970 costs about $25/month in power 
-15:12 < ArtForz> yeah, I'm down to 1250btc/day 
-15:12 < ArtForz> at least until my next 12 5970s arrive 
-15:12 < appamatto> that's $250 a day 
-15:13 < ArtForz> then I should be back at ~ 2kBTC/day 
-15:13 < ArtForz> well... it's also >$20k in hardware 
-15:17 < ArtForz> I'm hoping total hashrate keeps rising 
-15:18 < MT`AwAy> it should 
-15:18 < MT`AwAy> especially if services around bitcoins grow more 
-15:18 < appamatto> ArtForz, why? 
-15:19 < ArtForz> because my next design is pretty largescale 
-15:20 < ArtForz> ASICs 
-15:21 < appamatto> ArtForz, not an FPGA? 
-15:21 < ArtForz> nope, FPGA is too inefficient 
-15:21 < ArtForz> barely beats GPUs on hash/W and sucks for hash/$ 
-15:21 < appamatto> So an ASIC will need some kind of chip fab? 
-15:22 < ArtForz> yep 
-15:23 < ArtForz> well.. if you want to see a single miner with >66% of total network hashrate ... 
-15:24 < appamatto> do you have the ability to do that? 
-15:24 < ArtForz> right now? no 
-15:24 < ArtForz> I already got a design that works in simulation 
-15:28 < ArtForz> deciding if it's a good idea to invest about $200k in it 
-15:29 < ArtForz> fixed costs for a production run are pretty high 
-15:33 < appamatto> ArtForz, 50% of bitcoins over 3 months would be ... 
-15:33 < ArtForz> 324kBTC or so 
-15:34 < appamatto> seems like you'd need about half a year averaging 50% to recoup 
-15:35 < appamatto> But you could probably sell some units as well 
-15:35 < ArtForz> more like 9 months, it still uses quite a bit of power 
-15:35 < ArtForz> but should beat even 5970s by a factor of 5 or so on hash/W 
-15:35 < appamatto> you could sell units at a price that would offset the cost to make and the cost  
-                   they would exact on your mining operation 
-15:36 < Kiba`> so a gradual distribution of GPU machinery to the population at large? 
-15:36 < appamatto> on the other hand, you might raise the price of btc because you are making the  
-                   system more secure 
-15:37 < ArtForz> the problem is, it beats GPU mining by a large margin for hash/W 
-15:37 < ArtForz> so by throwing something like this at the current network it'd make GPU mining  
-                 (while paying for power) unprofitable pretty much over night 
-15:42 < ArtForz> well... a single board would be about 2Gh/s and ~200W 
-15:42 < tcatm> How much would such a board cost? 
-15:43 < ArtForz> err... $2k 
-15:43 < ArtForz> I scaled it until I ended up at about same hash/$ as a 5970 
-15:45 < ArtForz> it's a fully pipelined SHA256 core 
-15:48 < ArtForz> completely custom, somewhat inspired by deep crack and COPACOBANA 
-</code> 
- 
-= more ASIC = 
- 
-<code> 
-13-Dec-2010 
-15:49 < ArtForz> 300W per 5970   
-15:50 < fabianhjr> ArtForz: you got 33 5970s? 0_o                                      
-15:50 < ArtForz> no, I only have 24          
-15:50 <@theymos> Are you going to demand extra fees? With 65% of the network, you'     
-                 be able to force everyone to pay at least 0.01.                       
-15:50 < ArtForz> I was talking about machines with same power draw as my planned       
-                 $200k miner                                                            
-15:51 < ArtForz> for the same money cou could buy 300 5970s, which would do about      
-                 160Gh/s and need 90kW          
-15:52 < ArtForz> erm, with a mjority of the network I could simply hog generation     
-15:52 < ArtForz> = 7200btc/day       
-15:53 < Kiba> what if your machine got confiscated by the government and used to      
-              hijack the network?                                                   
-15:53 < ArtForz> bad luck I guess                                                   
-15:53 < da2ce7> lol with an majority, you could exclude anyone who generates bolcks     
-                other than yourself!                                                
-15:53 < ArtForz> yep              
-15:54 < ArtForz> why do you think I've suddenly stopped adding GPUs when I was ~33%     [Noodles]  
-                 of total hashrate?     
-15:54 < nanotube__> ArtForz: are you really about to invest in 200ghps of processing    achristi~  
-                    power? 
-16:02 < ArtForz> ASICs 
-16:03 < ArtForz> ever heard of deep crack? 
-16:03 < ArtForz> EFFs DES bruteforce cracker, about 1800 custom ICs   
-16:04 < ArtForz> I'm pretty much intending to do the same thing with bitcoin-sha2 
-16:04 < ArtForz> about same hash/$, 8-10x better hash/   
-16:05 < ArtForz> = a machine matching the current network would need about 5kW  
-16:05 < Kiba> ArtForz: so you're implementing much more efficent form of mining?        altamic    
-16:06 < ArtForz> pretty much 
-16:06 < ArtForz> onyl problem is it doesn't scale down    
-16:06 < ArtForz> even at 1k chips fixed costs dominate 
-16:07 < Kiba> are you going to buy a wind mill?                                         [Noodles]  
-16:07 < Phoebus> ArtForz, did you study/are studying engineering somewhere?             AAA_awri~  
-16:07 < nanotube__> ArtForz: how about you collect investment from other community      achristi~  
-                    members, then distribute the chips pro-rata?      
-16:07 < Kiba> he's a 37 years old fart                                                
-16:07 < ArtForz> Phoebus: yup       
-16:07 < nanotube__> ArtForz: that way you get more volume, lower cost. and as a side    
-                    benefit... you don't end up with >50% of the network  
-                                  
-</code> 
- 
-= new ati card=  
-<code> 
-16:23 < fabianhjr> ArtForz: Are the new 6000 GPUs worth it?                      
-16:24 < ArtForz> not really                                                          
-16:24 < ArtForz> and 69xx will probably suck even worse      
-16:26 < ArtForz> I got a 6870, not worth it                                            
-16:27 < ArtForz> 235Mh/s, 150W, doesnt have much OC headroom                          
-16:28 < ArtForz> and you need sdk 2.2 for it   
-16:28 < ArtForz> = say goodbye to decent multiGPU performance 
-</code> 
- 
-= nvidia telsa = 
-<code> 
-13:54 < ArtForz> DP: tesla C2050 = 257.6 GFLOPs, HD6970 = 337.9GFLOPs, HD5970 =         
-                 464GFLOPs                                                              
-13:55 < ArtForz> and the 5970 can do another 1856GFLOPs SP on the XYZW units in        
-                 parallel to DP on the T unit    
-</code> 
- 
-= artforz summary = 
-<code> 
-09:11 < ArtForz> 16.5Ghash here 
-09:13 < ArtForz> 5 HD5770, 24 HD5970, 1 HD6870, 1 HD6970, for a total of 55 GPUs 
-09:13 < Sultan_> you lot have 5 computers? 
-09:13 < ArtForz> 9  
-09:15 < ArtForz> with a total power draw of ~9kW  
-</code> 
- 
-= network hash rate = 
-<code> 
-< donpdonp> is it possible to estimate the gigahash rate of the entire network? 
-< ArtForz> estnextdiff 17571.2 
-< ArtForz> so thats 17571.2 * 2**32 / 600 hps or... 125.78 ghash 
-< donpdonp> whats the  / 600 hps for?  
-< ArtForz> 600 seconds nominal per block 
-</code> 
  
bitcoin/miners.txt ยท Last modified: 2016/06/25 11:25 (external edit)