16-Nov-2017 19:42:37 donpdonp | can you name the extensions so at least we can refer to them in irc? 19:43:12 wagle | (1) I run a hacked esr52 to not double-space lists of tags 19:44:33 wagle | (2) I run my fixed version of editmarkplus to let me resize the individual bookmark editor. 19:46:02 wagle | (3) I run my github'd "tagspace-archive" to do complex queries on bookmark tags. 19:46:52 wagle | (4) I manually query and modify tags in order to run a daily workflow. I really really need to automate that. 19:47:21 wagle | (2) and (3) are installable if I hand you the .xpi files 19:47:48 wagle | (1) is a minor patch to esr52 source 19:48:20 wagle | without automation, (4) requires you to be OCD or something
16-Nov-2017
17:15:07 wagle | anyone here use chrome? what's egregious about it, compared to (the new) firefox?
17:32:38 rozwell | wagle: have people been saying chrome is awful compared to the new firefox?
17:36:45 wagle | rozwell: dunno, thught I'd ask around since I'm trying to escape firefox
17:36:59 wagle | 's foundation oof sand
17:37:23 rozwell | i'm not sure the backwards compatibility story is any better in chrome land
17:37:41 rozwell | but chrome is the same as it's been, only now firefox has a slight performance edge
17:37:43 wagle | !image rocket assisted tricycle
17:37:44 skybotbeta | http://boxercycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/BN_RocketElectricTrike_014.jpg
17:38:15 rozwell | so it seems like you're getting off the firefox tricycle as others are getting back on i guess
17:39:14 wagle | they whittled down the Miati to a tricycle.
17:40:06 wagle | I dunno. I've spend ten years getting a thousand papercuts, not theyy applied a wrecking ball
17:40:18 wagle | so I have a bad attitude
17:40:46 wagle | I dunno. I've spend ten years getting a thousand papercuts, now they applied a wrecking ball
17:42:43 wagle | my very confused mind is trying over and over to reconsile continuing with firefox, despite my opinion that it will die in 1-2 years now, or go with chrome, which I *think* they won't
| "googlize" in that time frame
17:43:01 rozwell | what constitutes 'googlization'?
17:43:02 wagle | but a browser is central to my workflow
17:43:22 * | djwong tries out Fx 57, immediately notices that all the fonts look the same
17:43:41 rozwell | i would doubt that firefox will die anytime soon, especially since this release seems to have got people excited about it
17:44:54 wagle | witness orcut or the colloberative thng whose name I'm spacing, they ignore it until only 90% of the populaton uses it, then claim no-one uses it, and kill it
17:45:32 wagle | its a shiny new toy, that no extensions worth mentioning work on any more
17:45:57 wagle | so after the shininess wears off
17:46:00 rozwell | i haven't used any extensions in years
17:46:11 wagle | why use firefox?
17:46:14 wagle | then
17:46:17 rozwell | why use chrome then?
17:46:37 wagle | chrome supports the web sites I use
17:46:45 rozwell | does firefox not?
17:46:48 wagle | unlike safari and esr52
17:47:41 wagle | but the question is actually "what are chrome's gotcha's?"
17:48:12 wagle | firefox does, but my bad attitude wants firefox to die
17:48:24 rozwell | the set of things it supports is slightly different than the set of what other browsers support
17:48:32 rozwell | and it's chock full of google integrations
17:48:47 wagle | oh, I'm forced to use esr52, which is rotting already
17:49:01 wagle | the coolest websites dont cope with it
17:49:03 rozwell | it sounds like you're not forced to use anything
17:49:41 wagle | right now, I'm forced to use esr52 because it supports queries on tags
17:50:02 wagle | but its breaking, and will go away in june
17:52:00 wagle | I have 10K tags on 13K bookmarks (including 2k personal wiki pages). my life and ability to do things depends on this setup. I'm flailing around trying to get off firefox, but noot
| seeing an alternatiive, nevertheless, I'm seeing what I can construct on chrome
17:52:05 rozwell | well firefox is currently slightly faster and backed by a less evil company
17:52:48 rozwell | chrome is slightly less fast and backed by a scary company
17:53:09 wagle | firefox hant been shooting at your wheel-chair-for-your-mind for a decade now
17:53:18 wagle | hasnt
17:54:10 wagle | but I havent been in chrome's sights yet, hence asking about it
17:54:29 rozwell | i have no idea how to interpret that metaphor
17:54:34 wagle | .. my ..
17:55:38 rozwell | but i don't think anyone over in chrome land cares about indefinitely supporting your niche use case for some bookmarks feature either
17:56:11 wagle | I didnt say I could tag things in chrome
17:57:11 wagle | and i supposed I should realize that no-one in the GOP or whitehouse is interested in the medicare, ssdi, and hud use cases either
17:57:51 rozwell | it just seems like the amount of time you've spent bitching about it here could've been used to find or build a suitable replacement
17:57:59 wagle | I just think whatever I build on top of chrome will last longer than firefoox
17:58:50 wagle | you are the one bitching at me for asking about "whats wrong with chrome"
17:59:34 wagle | over and over, I find no replacement for esr52, but II have to replace it.
18:00:23 wagle | so RIGHT NOW, I'm seeing what I can build using chrome, but wondering about the ways I might be painting myself into another corner
18:00:47 wagle | but YOU dredge up all the olld angst
18:01:29 rozwell | it sounded like you wanted to know how chrome compared to firefox in terms of long term support
18:01:42 rozwell | i don't think chrome has an extended support version
18:01:54 rozwell | so wouldn't that make it less stable than firefox in that regard?
18:02:13 wagle | I need the organizer to build things. right now its too slow to get much done.
18:03:24 wagle | I am trying "browser agnostic".. my choices are chrome, firefox, and possibly opera. safari is not supported by the websites I try to use all the time.
18:04:16 wagle | so, since firefox is trying to emuate chrome now, I thought I'd give it a spin
18:04:44 wagle | otherwise, I hold my nose, and usue ff57+
18:05:01 wagle | unse
18:06:00 wagle | btw "less evil" is a point, though, ff has actively done me evil, and google hasnt (yet)
18:07:12 rozwell | evil is a strong word for it
18:08:05 wagle | umm.. my physical life depends on this thing they are taking away
18:08:49 rozwell | your life depends on tagged bookmarks?
18:09:37 wagle | I have to log all my personal details here over and over?
18:10:14 wagle | but yes, via a complex web of dependencies
18:12:26 pingveno | I'm confused, how has Firefox removed tags?
18:13:04 wagle | instead of dead people, I see entire probabiliistic case-analyses at once. no matter what I come up with, I die, physically, in 1-4 years. Before the gopzis and the tag thing, that
| was more than maybe 10 years.
18:15:15 wagle | with ESR52, by default, tags have a tiny non-resizable editor, and no ability to form complex and/or/not queries on them. with ff57, those two extensions are not permitted.
18:18:28 wagle | so, by default, tags have been miserable to use in firefox for a decade, so no-one uses them, which they can measure, so put no effort into making them better
18:19:58 wagle | my situation is akin to having my wheelchair marked as "to-be-vaporized", and having bystanders suggest that I build my own, when I have no arms or legs
18:20:24 wagle | I can type with a pencil in my mouth
18:20:34 wagle | in this analogy
18:21:49 wagle | I have a board with wheels on it now, that sorta gets me around.. but I would do better with an ironman suit
18:22:23 rozwell | ironman built his own suit though
18:22:24 wagle | but even the board is to be vaporized
18:23:10 wagle | joe on the sidewalk can do that? everyone?
18:23:41 rozwell | i believe in the past you've suggested you're maintaining extensions to work with these tags
18:23:47 * | curve25519 is looking at condo above beer store
18:23:52 wagle | yeah, I'm trying to pull the ironman trick, without have arms or legs
18:24:34 wagle | I inherited one thats large, ugly, and is pretty much unsupportable
18:25:01 rozwell | so what's stopping you from exporting the tags and putting them into some kind of database that can support querying?
18:28:43 wagle | the notion of trying to support it is plan A. plan B is getting off ff completely. both plans involve my own database, unless I try to support tags in firefox over at least one dead
| body. my broken mind cannot handle all the failure modes that all lead to my physical death.
18:29:50 wagle | I AM working on this. as part of prototyping plan B while mulling over plan A, I asked about using chrome instead of firefox
18:31:14 wagle | my understanding is that ff57 trails chrome in support for extensions, instead of being way ahead, like before
18:32:06 wagle | I need to see the actions of the bookmarking system, so I'm trying to figure out what I can and cannot do now
18:32:50 rozwell | if i were in your position i'd think about making this thing a web app so as to not be dependent on any browser
18:34:43 wagle | zotero is one candidate. devonthink is another. people the zotero forum seem dubious about 10000 tags. devonthink so far seems to display things in a way that only supports a hundred
| or so, but I am not certain oof that
18:36:27 wagle | Zotero got involuntarly shoved off firefox, so plan B is to use either it or devonthink, or something else, by fitting into one or more of the ecossystems
18:36:46 wagle | zotero is the exemplar of plan B
18:37:53 wagle | offboard apps would be slower than what I have now (I expect)
18:38:55 wagle | plan A is to fix firefox tags. that has both the best outcome, and the worst expectation of success
18:40:36 wagle | I have to think for another day or two on plan A. meanwhile plan B is seeing what I can do with zotero, devonthink, my own stuff, evernote, etc. some of which is proprietary so
| yoinkable.
18:41:48 wagle | my pitch for plan A is verbally weak, I see it it in my head, but having a hell of a time verbalizing it
18:42:25 wagle | plan B Is cobbling together existing things to approximate the ideas for plan A
18:43:07 wagle | II expect plan B to be as slow as my existing setup
18:43:11 wagle | or slower
18:43:38 wagle | all the latency/bandwidth boundaries are worst case
18:45:13 wagle | I was "this close" to having a life again
18:49:00 donpdonp | I wish i understood what you're describing.
19:02:04 wagle | for example?
19:05:24 donpdonp | any of it?
19:05:53 * | donpdonp tried to formulate something
19:06:29 donpdonp | 'with ESR52, by default, tags have a tiny non-resizable editor , and no ability to form complex and/or/not queries on them. with ff57, those two extensions are not permitted.'
19:06:54 donpdonp | by default means to be ESR52 with no extensions, yet the end of the sentance implies extensions
19:07:02 donpdonp | means to be/means to me
19:09:15 donpdonp | a criteria for success would be a good thing, too. if 'those two extensions' worked on ESR52, would that be what you want?
19:13:27 donpdonp | in other news, elm continues to rock.
19:15:05 zenlinux | donpdonp: you sure seem to like that mail client. it's been a while since I've used it myself
19:15:17 * | donpdonp rolls his eys
19:15:44 donpdonp | i was crushed to learn pine doesnt really stand for Pine Is Not Elm
19:22:00 bkero | The mail client?
19:22:06 bkero | heh
19:37:55 wagle | donpdonp: you have to provide two extensions to ESR52 to get resizable editor windows and complex tag queries. FF57 has the same problem, but doesnt permit extensions to fix those
| problems any more
19:38:57 wagle | a number of sites are now unhappy with ESR52 (expires next June), and some just dont work
19:40:00 * | wagle defensively hugs his mouse driven gui
19:40:01 donpdonp | what are the names of the extensions
19:40:55 wagle | they both arent public, so that they can be certified so I can use them.. nothing sekrit, just no public urls
19:42:07 wagle | if you really want to give them a spin, I can see if I can setup something
19:42:13 donpdonp | i dont.
19:42:21 donpdonp | i just want to understand.
19:42:37 donpdonp | can you name the extensions so at least we can refer to them in irc?
19:43:12 wagle | (1) I run a hacked esr52 to not double-space lists of tags
19:44:33 wagle | (2) I run my fixed version of editmarkplus to let me resize the individual bookmark editor.
19:46:02 wagle | (3) I run my github'd "tagspace-archive" to do complex queries on bookmark tags.
19:46:52 wagle | (4) I manually query and modify tags in order to run a daily workflow. I really really need to automate that.
19:47:21 wagle | (2) and (3) are installable if I hand you the .xpi files
19:47:48 wagle | (1) is a minor patch to esr52 source
19:48:20 wagle | without automation, (4) requires you to be OCD or something
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